I does seem so blindingly obvious when you look at it that way.
It’s just a big house of cards. Pull the bottom one out (Adam and Eve) and there’s nothing supporting the rest of it.
Christians will often tell you that the Old Testament is “old” and really not necessary for the truth of Jesus. It’s frustrating when they want the country to follow the Ten Commandments, but when you point out to them that the Commandments are a bit archaic for the modern world, or even for the world of Jesus, that they really are not the basis of any real morality, they tell you that those were meant for the Jews, and we shouldn’t be so literal in interpreting them. Same thing if they cite Leviticus to justify their homophobia, and we point out that they don’t also observe the Levitican requirements about stoning, and mixed fibers and shell fish. “Oh. Those are old Hebraic laws and don’t apply to us”.
But original sin comes from Adam and Eve, and if Adam and Eve didn’t exist, then Original Sin didn’t exist, and if Original Sin didn’t exist, then sending Jesus to die to save us from it makes no sense, and is pointless!
You underestimate the theists. You can say that it’s genetically impossible for 6000 genetic diseases to be created in 6000 years, and they will tell you that for God, everything is possible.
Then they’d dodge your question about why a benevolent god would have any interest in creating 6000 genetic diseases to begin with.
Yet another effort by godless scientists to cover up the TRUTH!
Not sure if troll or just stupid
Not sure if stupid or just lazy. Perhaps both!
If Jesus could make Zombie Lazarus, then certainly making mere mutants is not beyond his abilities. Plus, the concept of “diseases” is just a means secularists use to deny that people are routinely possessed by demons.
And anyway Jesus didn’t die. A couple of days after he supposedly ‘died for our sins’ he was cavorting around with his buddies. And all that supposed ‘suffering’? Puhleeze! The Romans crucified thousands. JC didn’t suffer any more than any of them, if any of it even happened, which is doubtful. He lied about dying. His suffering was mundane for the times. So what’s the big deal? Some pissant peasant rabbi gets nailed up for shooting his mouth off and the rest of the world has to suffer pain, misery, slaughter, death, and ignorance for thousands of years? Nuts to that.
my problem with the Jesus story is “What are a few hours of suffering to an infinite being? Nothing. And if he was The Word then why is rising a big deal anyway. IT’s just a thing he does in his spare time.
What astounds me is how the mere question you raise eluded civilization for 2000 years, and it’s so obvious. Indoctrination is an ugly thing.
t’s the quesstion that made me an ahteist years ago,
Your premise is pointless for those who don’t believe in original sin…and there are a whole lot of us. You keep tripping over the Roman Catholic stumbling block.
Hmmm. Maybe, Dwight. There are all those thousands of pesky Protestant/Jesus sects that make it up as they split off from their predecessors, but the Catholic Church is the mother of all predecessors. You all came originally from the Grand Poobah of Churches that originally invented Jesus. And there’s about 2 billion of them in the world, so that’s a lot of Christianity I hear falling by the wayside.
Tell me, though. What exactly DO you and your particular sect believe Jesus died to save us from? I’m curious.
What sect of Christianity, or any Abrahamic religion, doesn’t believe in original sin?
Whatever sect it is, others will do what Dwight has done and cite the “no true scotsman” fallacy. It’s nearly pointless trying to argue against generic Christianity – there’s no such thing, and there never was. Even first-century Christians disagreed about all manner of stuff. If you’re interested, check out Bart Ehrman’s Lost Christianities for an interesting look at early Christian sectarianism.
Ok, lets start from the top here. I’m an atheist, but this is simply unscientific
1) Genetics does not have a limit of only 1 mutation per generation. In fact, the average human has 60 genetic mutations at birth (most are neutral, a few are harmful diseases, and fewer still are beneficial).
2) If Adam and Eve (if they existed) had the same DNA, they would both be the same sex. Obviously, if any god existed, he would have had to change Eve’s DNA. Your assumption that because this god took the rib of Adam means that he was cloning him is an intuitive leap.
3) NEVER quote “all scientific knowledge.” Science is not a monolith. That is why science is good. It can disagree with itself, and seeks to find the truth. I’ve learned that anything that quotes all scientific knowledge is normally just making it up.
4) It is indeed possible to accumulate 6000 diseases over 6000 years. It is even possible to accumulate 6000 diseases over 1 generation. It is highly improbable? Yes. Is it impossible? No.
5) Many Christians do believe in evolution, yet still seem fine with original sin. They think that at some point, we evolved the capacity to sin. Hence, we then accumulated original sin.
6) Without original sin, everyone would still “need to be saved by Jesus” because by the biblical definitions, everyone sins at some point anyways. I never really saw the need for original sin even when I was a Christian.
Now that I know that you will just make up whatever you think to be true, and then site it as science, I can’t trust this site anymore.
I was starting to stand and given you a resounding ovation, but then you said “site” and not “cite.”
Nice try, bud, but I’m not falling for your “logic and reason” mumbo-jumbo.
When did you ever trust it? You’re new here. I’ve been doing this for 5 years, and this is the first visit from you I remember.
However, in the interest of fairness and full disclosure, this post was done tongue-in-cheek, with very little intent other than to make people think, laugh (wryly) and maybe question their beliefs. I didn’t create those graphics, I stole them from FB. Hell, the first one doesn’t even use good grammar, so I wouldn’t trust its expositions on scientific knowledge.
Yet….there is still a grain of truth to be derived from it. The creation myth in Genesis is not sustainable in many scientific ways, and the little I know of genetics and biology does support the conclusion that 6000 years is too short of time to create humans through evolutionary processes (Sorry, I don’t buy magical explanations). Sin is just a metaphor for whatever we think is bad. Otherwise, it doesn’t exist. Why god would do away with sin (something the whole NT really doesn’t accomplish) by having his son crucified defies reason.
So, in the end, I hope you enjoyed these graphics as much as I did. Would I base my atheistic worldview around them? Partially, but there are far better reasons to be an atheist, and not believe in creationism, than what is in those two graphics.
Well his first mistake was trusting you, SI. I wonder how long he’s been trusting you and now he’s crushed. So sad. So very sad.
Anybody that knows me, would know they can’t trust me. Bwahahahaha
Steve Rudd (a fundie who believes in the claims of Don Patton) does not believe in original sin. I’m not sure his religion is denominational, though.
Isn’t it fun when crazies collide? Thanks for the link.
And the oldest genetic haplotype is found among the San people of Southern Africa, whereas if the Biblical account was literally true, we would expect to find it among the people of the Middle East.