Carl left a nice comment here which I thought I’d respond to in a new post. On my About the Inquisitor page, I set forth a short, cursory couple of paragraphs about myself, but now is as good a time as any, after 50 some posts, almost 200 comments and 12,000 hits, to expound on myself a little more, maybe provide a little understanding as to why I have this blog.
Carl, you unintentionally described my life quite well. We seemed to have shared some common experiences. I suspect we are not alone. I know from talking to other ex-Catholics, and reading comments on Internet Infidels and other blogs, that the Catholic experience is almost universal. It clicks for some, maybe most, but not others. It didn’t click for you. Fortunately, it didn’t click for me, either.
I don’t have any specific memories of outrageous Catholic teachings, other than the stereotypical one, probably in first grade, about babies who were not baptized going to hell. I thought that was soooo unfair, that it made me question, or at least not accept, anything else from that point on. If these authority figures thought it was acceptable that innocent babies went to hell because of something their ancestors did, then the rest of what they told me must be suspect also. I never really inquired any further into any other theological questions, just figured it (religion class) was something I had to put up with because my parents insisted I go to parochial school, and in order to learn all the good stuff, I had to learn the nonsense. I didn’t really believe any of it, though at the time, I wasn’t conscious of my disbelief.
Catholicism was more of an identity, for me, rather than a system of beliefs. I knew I was different than my Protestant friends, though I also knew we worshiped the same god. From a Catholic’s point of view, all Protestants were doomed to hell, because the Catholic Church was the “one true church”. I was told that that was because the Catholic Church was the original church, the one founded by Jesus himself, and his Apostles. It wasn’t until I got much older that I discovered that many Protestant denominations thought I was the one who was going to hell, because in their eyes, Catholics were not even Christian. Boy, was that confusing. Of course, it added to my deepening skepticism about all religion. If these people who professed to worship the same god thought others of the same ilk were going to hell, simply because they didn’t attend the same church, while my church thought the same of them, where was the line of demarcation? Where did God really pick and choose from? Who could figure this out?
While trying to remember, and set down, the beliefs of my youth, I feel somewhat dishonest, and it’s mainly because it’s hard to peer back that far in time and reconstruct my actual beliefs. What WERE my beliefs when I was twelve, or 18, or 31? I never wrote them down, and rarely discussed them with others. The fog of 40 years is thick. My memory of that time is distorted, to a certain extent, by my atheist colored glasses. It’s only fair for me to say so here. So can you trust my memory?
I do know that once I went off to college, I shed Catholicism like a snake sheds its skin, and didn’t look back, so I must have been predisposed to do so. I do know it was quite a relief to not have to pretend to a religion that did not really feel right. It’s easy to sit here, 40 or so years later, and say I was always an atheist, but I don’t think it was all that clear cut, so it’s probably not true. In temperament, religious belief was unattractive, even foreign, to me. Discussions about God, or religion, or whatnot, always made me squirm. I was uncomfortable with them, and I think, looking back, that it was because by simply contributing to the discussions it was assumed I was a believer, but my subconscious was saying I was not. At least, I’d like to think that was the case.
It took a lot of reading and thinking and discussing to get to the point where I called myself an atheist. It could have happened sooner. I wish it had. I guess I could say that until about 5 years ago, I believed that a god existed, but only in some general, ephemeral sense, and I attribute that more to the hold of childhood indoctrination, than on a reasoned acceptance of the concept.
I think we are lucky for the Internet. Not only is it a beautiful exposition of the potentiality of science, but it also allowed me to link up with like minded people, and provided a wonderful source for research and information about atheism. The Big “A” was a word, and philosophy, that I previously had shied away from because of the stigma it held for all Catholics. We were taught to fear and loath atheists. It was very hard to shake that. My contacts through the Internet helped that immensely.
It all came to a head after I had become a member of an unrelated online Usenet group, and an off topic discussion ensued about atheism. I was surprised to find that there was a sizable percentage of atheists among the regular contributors. I had previously thought that my feelings about religion were in the very small minority, but the discussion opened my eyes to the prevalence of non-theism. I had never been in such close proximity to atheists and their thinking. One of the contributors made a statement that really sticks with me today. She said that she not only did not believe in gods, but that she did not believe in anything supernatural. I had never thought about belief in god and a belief in a non-natural world as the same thing, before that point. But it made sense! I had always thought of god as natural, because that really is the essence of Catholic belief. It was unnatural not to believe in god. Whole new avenues of thought opened up in front of me. If the supernatural didn’t exist, then the only thing left was the natural world. I think at that moment, I became a materialist. This also dovetailed well with my fascination for all things scientific, and in particular my objection to creationism as it opposed evolution. Suddenly it was all coming together.
At that point I decided that it was time to stop avoiding the question – the ultimate question – about the existence of god. Everything boils down to the answer to that question. If god doesn’t exist, then all religion is a waste of breath and resources. So I started reading: George H. Smith’s “Atheism: The Case Against God” and “Why Atheism?”; David Mills’ “Atheist Universe”; David Eller’s “Natural Atheism”; Carl Sagan’s “The Demon Haunted World”; Michael Schermer’s “Why People Believe Weird Things”; Ruth Green’s “Born Again Skeptic’s Guide to the Bible”. Later, Sam Harris’s “The End of Faith”, and recently, Richard Dawkins “The God Delusion”, Harris’s “Letter to a Christian Nation” and Christopher Hitchens “god is not Great”. And countless articles in Free Inquiry, Skeptic and other magazines, not to mention huge amounts of unrelated but distinct information directly from the Internet.
I secured a screen name at Internet Infidels and joined in many discussions, but simply read many more. By the time I was done, in fact, long before I was done, I was a confirmed atheist. If you read up on the subject, in my opinion, you can only reach one conclusion – the probability that god exists is so infinitesimal that it approaches zero. For all intents and purposes, god doesn’t exist. He can’t be disproven, but he sure as hell can’t be proven either, and it’s not a 50/50 question either way. More like a 99/1 question.
Theists will be quick to point to the fact that all of the reading material I relied upon has an atheistic slant. There is nothing religious in there at all. No Michael Novak, no St. Augustine, no Bible. But remember, I was already indoctrinated into Christianity, and specifically into Catholicism. The Bible, St. Augustine, even Michael Novak, or at least his thinking, had been embedded into my religious upbringing from the moment I understood language, long before I could read. I knew all that. Don’t forget that I was only looking for the answer to one question. I didn’t need to re-read theology, all of which assumes the answer to that one question, in order to come to my own conclusion. I wanted the counter arguments, those arguments that were denied me as I grew into my religious being. If anyone reading this honestly thinks that Catholic education explores the question of the existence of god, they are sadly mistaken. It is assumed, under penalty of hellfire, from the very beginning.
So that’s where I am now. I’d like to think that I’ve finally figured it all out, but that would be somewhat naive, not to mention close-minded, of me. My thinking may change, but I really don’t think by much. I certainly don’t foresee a 180º change. An atheistic world view is so liberating, and so encompassing of known facts and so explanatory of reality, that the odds of a different explanation for reality are very slim. Religious explanations usually generate far more questions than they answer. Atheistic and scientific ones do not.
I think I’m here to stay.
Hey, John. You said: I think I’m here to stay.
I think you’re here to stay, too. And it’s nice to have you on our side.
If you do decide to lapse back into Catholicism, though, you could keep blogging under the same name. The Pope would probably be proud.
@ The Exterminator
I can’t remember when it was or one who’s blog, but I definitely remember saying something to which you said that I’d “beaten you to it”. Well, that makes it 1-1.
@ Span
Wonderfully written Sir. To echoe The Ex, we really are glad to have you. I always love reading deconversion stories, but it’s only since I’ve been blogging and had the opportunity to get to really know people online that I’ve been able to read the tales of people I er, well, know.
I particularly appreciated your honesty in terms of knowing what your younger self thought and believed. Even at 25, I often feel like I can get right inside the head of my 17 year old former self, but you’re right that we should be cautious when doing that.
You hit on so many points that I completely agree with, I’ll comment on just a few of them.
I completely agree. The internet is a major weapon in our arsenal, more so than it is for the theists, in my opinion. Without it I don’t think I’d have got to where I am in terms of what I believe. That’s why I think that our humble blogs are of great importance, and, together, we may end up having a role in the course of history.
I agree, again. IMO, a completely rational, open and honest evaluation of all the available facts and evidence can only lead to one conclusion. I’ve often said that if you truly adopt rationalism/scepticism as a worldview, then atheism will inevitably follow, it’s really a matter of when, not if.
Well said. I hate this implication that God’s existence is like the flip of a coin. This point can’t be made too often.
Nail on the head. When fundies say we should get a more balanced view, they just see that as a stepping stone to having only their view.
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“The Spanish inquisition is here and it’s here to staaaaaay” – From “History of the World” – Mel Brooks as Torquemada
That song has been playing in my head the entire time I’ve been reading your excellent recapping of your experience.
I, too, heard at a young age my Sunday school teacher say that he believed babies would go to Hell. This was a Protestant church. At the time, I simply rejected his statement.It’s been a couple of decades and he has since changed his mind.
I sometimes would rather religion retain its ugliness so people will have to make the hard choice and just abandon it altogether, rather than recycling the watered down versions of it.
No one deserves Hell. That’s not the reason I stopped believing, but now that I’m out I can freely express my hitherto inward contempt for the stupid doctrines of original sin, hell, the concept of a “chosen race”, predestination, the trinity, and the atonement, limited or otherwise.
Re Atheist bias in your reading:
The Church has had 2,000 years to make its case and has done so with the force of law for about 1,700 of those years. Reading a few atheist books should have been no match if what they were peddling was Truth.
@Ex
I just can’t imagine being a Catholic again. I had a priest once try to reconvert me (as he said, “bring me back to the Church”) when I visited my mother at the hospital during her final illness, before she died. I thought that was a pretty low thing to do, try to get me when he thought I was at my weakest, and vowed never to go back to the Church. He just died a week ago. No tears shed here.
@Tobe
Thanks again for the shout out. You know how grateful I am.
@Polly
Now I have to go rent that movie. 😉
Exactly! That was one of my points. You said it better. Thanks.
I agree, it is hard to remember what exactly your views were at various times in your life looking back at them many years, even decades, later.
I honestly can’t recall the exact moment I became an atheist. After I shed Christianity some time in 1988, I entered a sort of New Age phase. I believed that there was some creator entity and that I could have a personal relationship with. I read Buddhist and Hindu texts, and while I never considered myself an adherent of either of those religions, I did imbibe some of their tenets.
My journey from Catholicism to atheism probably took about 4 years. At some point, again, I don’t remember exactly when, I just came to the conclusion that “Hey, I’m an atheist!”
Nothing terrible happened to me as a result, and though I did have some times in the 1990’s where I felt depressed, in the last ten years my life has been very good. I met the love of my life and we got married, bought a house, and had two beautiful children. I feel very fortunate and am grateful for all that I have. If the God of the Bible is real and he doesn’t want me to be an atheist, he sure is doing a lousy job convincing me I made the wrong choice.
This is the first time I have visited this site. The revised picture of the last supper brings back memories of my first communion when I was 8-9 years old. After the service I asked my mother if that was really blood. She did her best to explain, but I felt I had just done something very wrong.
I didn’t understand what she told me or my feelings because of my age. That communion was my first step toward atheism, but I didn’t know it at the time.
Welcome, Ralph. Nice to have you.
I love to hear the things that seem to trigger skepticism, and ultimately atheism, in people. They are about as varied as the species living in the Amazon rain forest.
I, too, always wondered about the body and blood of Christ thing. Never really made much sense to me. I used to eat the hosts over at my grandmother’s house (she was the house mother for the home for unwed mothers run by Catholic Charities. I always wondered why there were all these fat girls running around.) and found it unusual that I could munch on them from her refrigerator, but because a priest said an incantation over them, all of a sudden they were flesh, and I couldn’t even touch them.
There was so much we were told to simply accept, and not question.
It’s fun to reminisce, though.
That painting, by the way, is called Zombie Last Supper.
Great post, I appreciate your honesty – I also find my more theistic days hard to remember.
I read somewhere of a former priest – now atheist who said his first doubts were raised as a child, when he realised that God’s omniscience meant he could see people on the toilet and that just seemed SO wrong! 🙂
The only thing I’d disagree with slightly in your post would be that the existence of God can’t be proven. It could easily be proven, by a large and persuasive miracle. Which makes the fact that it HASN’T been so suspicious.
Good point. I need to remember that.
God could easily prove his own existence. We mere mortals are unable to, though. 🙂
We can’t prove that a higher intelligence than us does not exist, but that is a separate issue from laying out a persuasive argument that the God of the Bible does not exist.
I think it’s interesting that you essentially didn’t consider atheism as a serious possibility until you met some actual atheists, but that once you had the idea to consider atheism, you ended up there yourself fairly quickly.
In my case, when I was in High School a number of my friends openly identified as atheist. None of them convinced me (or even really debated me about the question) at the time, but I think having had friends who were atheists affected my willingness to consider atheism as a serious possibility when I started questioning my religion.
Here’s how I became an atheist.
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Congratulations on having this posted to the Symposium. I nearly made you my first stop but went with second for 2 reasons. First, I had read something else you wrote about yourself and incorrectly assumed this was the same article. This was more detailed and more interesting and I’m glad I came! Secondly, Tristan had an article about this being paradise and, like I told her, one of my pet expressions is “it’s another day in paradise” so I had to go see what she wrote!
Near the end of your article you say, “Theists will be quick to point to the fact that all of the reading material I relied upon has an atheistic slant.”
I think nearly every person (certainly in the United States) has heard all of their lives, just-so bible stories. I don’t think we really need to compare these with natural explanations. We know what arguments are.
If you are a believer, what you need is to hear the naturalistic science that has been largely hidden from you so that you can make an informed decision. I’ve never met (although I’m sure they DO exist) a Christian who has an in-depth understanding of evolution, for instance. They THINK they know what it is, but once they do the reading they always say that they hadn’t realized how powerful the theory is.
I’m not suggesting that evolution forecloses any possibility of reconciling religion and science, but it’s like you said – the odds become highly stacked against a religious world-view. It’s not one or the other in some 50-50 proposition.
You ARE here to stay. You’ve been babtized – in the waters of knowledge.
Carry on my friend! Good job!
Though I disagree with where you ended up, I’m glad to hear that you’ve done some digging to get there. Though I understand you consider yourself ‘indoctrinated’ as a youth, if you ever do choose to read up on Christianity, let me suggest a few good places to start:
Alister McGrath; particularly “Foundations of Dialogue in Science & Religion” and his entire “Scientific Theology” series. They’re not flawless, but there is much to think about there. As a Doctor of Philosophy in Religion, a Doctor in Molecular Biology, the head of an Evangelical Bible college at Oxford, and an insightful writer and scholar, McGrath is well worth taking your time to read, even if he is at times a bit dull.
N.T. Wright; most importantly his “Christian Origins and the Question of God” series, particularly “New Testament and the People of God” and “Jesus and the Victory of God.” The importance of Wright cannot be downplayed – even as a Christian who doesn’t agree with him on all things doctrinal, the long-term impact he is having on the theology of the church through his historical research is unparalleled.
Again, you may never touch those, but they are indeed a good place to start if you ever want to look a bit longer at the question from the other side. Take care!
Thanks for the insight into your story. I agree with the Exterminator… the present Pope would be THRILLED with your screen name!
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